Thoughts of the Day - Jack Murphy and Vox Day

I will start by saying I know more about Vox Day than I do about Jack Murphy. I have been following Vox Day through Stefan Molyneux. I find their conversations to be the most enjoyable and thought provoking. When it comes to society, Vox's argument is pretty simple. Identity > Culture > Politics. This is very similar to Scott Adam's Persuasion Stack (as shown here). For both Vox and Scott, Identity is the strongest form of persuasion and how people make decisions.

Politics is the bottom of the totem pole for Vox the same way Reason is the bottom of the totem pole for Scott. Both politics and reason are an intellectual endeavor. The reason why intellect is such a weak persuasive argument can be summed up with the analogy of the elephant.

"Perched atop the Elephant, the Rider holds the reins and seems to be the leader. But the Rider’s control is precarious because the Rider is so small relative to the Elephant. Anytime the six-ton Elephant and the Rider disagree about which direction to go, the Rider is going to lose. He’s completely overmatched."

The lizard brain wins easily. Most people lack the mental strength and maturity to tame the elephant. And since we evolved as tribal creatures, the easiest way to associate with a tribe is through similar looking people. In other words, identity is the easiest. Think about it, from a survival standpoint, why the hell would you go against your identity/tribe? It would have been suicide.

Jack's argument can be placed in Vox's 2nd tier, Culture. Jack hopes for a melting pot America that shares the same culture. The American culture is founded on small government, individual liberty, and Christianity. Vox quips that civic nationalism can work as shown by the Romans. The caveat was that Rome was a totalitarian state. One could argue that, civic nationalism is only viable with a strong leader with a strong sense law and order. In other words, Trump.

And here lies the issue with civic nationalism, it requires a strong leader to keep everything in order. It is like a corporation, it is only as strong as its leader. A person can build a great company. A person can Make America Great Again. But that person is mortal. Apple was Steve Jobs creation. Now what does Apple do that is revolutionary? Not much. Trump can only lead for 8 years. Will his successor be able to keep it up?

I'm similar to Jack. I bought the fairy tale illusion that Obama would bring hope and change. I was a young 18 year old dreamer. I drank the liberal Kool-aid and believed the fantasy of a peaceful communist utopia. And then I remember the famous quote by George Carlin, "Question everything". The first round of questioning led me to the manosphere and the world of alpha and gaming. The second round of questioning led me to nutrition and exercise science. The latest round of questioning has led me to explore the ideas of government and persuasion.

Vox's argument will win out in the long run. As he said, "What I am describing is about as optional as gravity." But I think Jack's American Dream is still worth pursuing. Even if the game eventually ends, at least we can get a high score for the history books. Overall, I enjoyed this debate and hope there will be more exchanges between Alt-Light/New Right and Alt-Right. Especially in how both sides can work together to help Trump/Europe make Western Civilization Great Again.

Final thoughts, shout out to Ivan Throne for setting this up. You can find the debate here. Also, buy The Nine Laws. Your survival depends on it. I'm not getting anything by endorsing this. In fact, I'm still in the process of reading it and digesting it. It requires a lot of digestion.